Seminar notes, block 4

Laura Sitterly    - (What is highlighted in blue are the main points)

Crucible

• In the crucible the actions in society were justified and what was Good and Evil were simply constructs
• When there is social unrest these constructs are revealed.
• For example: King Philip's War in Salem
• Unholiness is portrayed with an evil connotation especially in lower class citizens.
• On the contrary the rich can abuse the constructs of Good and Evil to further their own personal interest
• For example: the prevalence of claiming satanic demeanors to acquire more land
• In the crucible they are using a construct of what is Good versus what is truly “good”.
• By latching onto the ideals of what is “good” they killed innocent people- so applied to modern day times … “how far does one go in pursuing accusations of what is good and bad”

Young Goodman Brown

• No one is really Good, everyone is a sinner. All else is a facade
• YGB (+ truth  & lies -)  vs. Crucible (- truth & lies +)
• More black and white split between Good vs. Evil in YGB (not so much grey area as perceived in comparison in the Crucible)
• There is good and evil present in society rather you see it or not (hawthorne)

Defining Good and Evil:

• In Young Goodman Brown when he became enamoured by the devil he viewed Good as a construct, similarly in the Crucible as well
• The constructs of Good and Bad are seen as constructs purely used to justify societal actions
• Good is how we cover up Evil, Evil is what we are trying to hide with Good
• For example, the girls and Abigail tried to conceal the Evil in society by justifying it was Good to diagnose witchcraft
• Evil is permanent, “the more concrete of the two,”… Good, on the other hand, is a construct. To elaborate the closest concrete law of what is Good is the Bible which at the end of the day is not solid because it is open to interpretation.
• Evil: Satan, conspiring with satan     Good: Faithful to God, religiously following holy ways
• How does John Proctor factor into what is Good and Evil…  where does he fall?
• John Proctor is evil: he lied, committed adultery
• Goodie Proctor perceives John Proctor as Good when he signs his confession
• In recognizing his wrongdoing John Proctor is Good
• Good: recognizing the sins you’ve committed Evil: going forth without second thought upon the sins you’ve committed
• Evil is a default state and the construct of Good conceals our ultimate nature to sin
• Furthermore, Evil is grounded in religion and violating the Bible. Good on the other hand is not a biblical terminology it is simply the correction after acknowledgment of Evil wrongdoings/ sins.
• No one is free from Evil (even ministers and children). NOT everyone is Evil but everyone is susceptible to Evil
• For example, in YGB the shock the MC feels in the forest when he identifies that people who he viewed as Good were now susceptible to Evil (pious community member vs. non pious)
• Evil changes overtime but our definition of Good does not alter

Saumya

The Crucible

• It is not just a societal construct

• Look at salem in time period, instability, people tend to grab onto ideas easily
• People grab onto good of the church
• Good and evil help people create a sense of security
• More structured organized society (wealth from land (high social class) = good while poor/beggar/slave (low social class) = evil)
• Use good and bad to further personal interests (abuse of power by higher social classes)
• Abigail abuses her power as a child to further her own interests in
• Good and evil are used as constructs to justify people’s actions (what is seen as good is not really what people say it is)
• There is no real good in The Crucible
• In crucible there are times where truth is considered good
• Lying is good in certain contexts (girls in witch trials)
• the crucible applied good and evil to society

Young Goodman Brown

• Young goodman brown sees everyone as evil (no one is good in society all are sinners)
• Concepts of good and evil are just facades to help people feel justified in their actions
• God is seen as God, Devil is seen as Evil
• Good and evil are more black and white in young goodman brown (there is not really a gray area)
• More implications of good and evil in the crucible
• Young goodman brown (realizing what was going on in society)

Half Time

The Crucible

• Use good to hide evil (Abigail doesn’t let bad character show)
• Elements of evil such as revenge/fear are present, use “children cannot lie” to justify what they were doing
• Evil is treated as a scientific fact (Reverend Hale’s books about scientific ways to know if someone is evil
• The book to define good is the Bible (used by Puritan society as concrete law) however the Bible is open to interpretation (judges use it to justify the fact that children cannot lie)... this is taken advantage of by the girls
• Evil (Satan) Good (God)
• At that time evil was not believing in Christian ways (different from views today)
• Religious context of good and evil in the texts
• Anomaly: how do we perceive John Proctor with regard to good and evil?
• Evil is an inherent thing and good is used to justify answers (John Proctor has done evil things but he is a good Christian/societal standing)
• Forgiveness from Goody Proctor in ending scene
• Can you still be good if you commit a sin?
• Good is not necessarily just being holy it is also recognizing your evils.
• Evil is default nature of humans → Evil is very prevalent in every person in society and good is not just a construct it is accepting your evils
• Goody Proctor is portrayed as truly good (ignoring her contempt for Abigail)
• 2 definitions of good:
• Bible
• People’s nature and recognizing nature
• Evil is grounded in nature but good is not defined directly by the Bible, it is defined by recognizing your evils
• Not everyone is evil but everyone is susceptible to becoming evil

Young Goodman Brown

• A construct is just a name used to justify one’s actions
• Good is the construct while evil is a fact that is always there but is covered up by good
• If it was a dream:
• Supports the statement that everyone is capable of becoming evil

Conclusions on Both Texts

• Hard to put set definitions on good and evil
• Can put more specific definition as it is applied in the texts
• Both have similar views/time periods
• *Evil changes over time but good stays the same*
• Good is the recognition that everyone has capability of being evil

Hibbah

crucible:

• justifying the hangings
• war against indians, things unstable
• using children’s claim’s as justification
• verifying their insecurity
• creating sides
• putting blame somewhere other than themselves
• illusion of a more structured society
• go after slaves then elderly etc before getting to higher class
• easier to
• accusations for their own benefits
• get land
• get power
• abigail uses this especially because of her desire for proctor
• backfires
• constructs are not the same as their definitions
• construct of good is not actual good
• no real good in crucible, only their own construct
• went too far in their belief of good and evil
• clung to it so tightly as to justify the hangings
• lying beneficial for the girls
• the prayers said during the hanging at end is true good
• how people’s views of good vs evil has affected society

ygb:

• sees the same idea of everyone being evil
• sees the evils of everyone
• everyone he knew
• no one is genuinely good in this society
• no one is good
• less gray between good & evil
• not used for manipulation
• god = ultimate good
• satan = evil
• g vs e clearly established
• realizing that the world he saw may be backward
• realizing how reality was
• no application

part 2

crucible:

• use good to hide the evil
• abigail hides her evil nature in mask of good
• revenge, fear, very evident in the girls
• evil treated as fact, have procedures, very concrete ways to see it and recognise it, books
• bible to recognize good , concrete law
• judges justify children can’t lie with a quote
• no solid way to recognize good
• evil = conspiring with devil, not being religious, not worshipping
• good = worshipping god
• john proctor
• committed adultery
• recognizes the flaws in the town’s definition of good v evil
• hale says he’s good
• gets hung
• evil bc adultery, lying
• forgiven by wife
• becomes good in recognizing his sins, had good intentions
• good is recognizing the evils you have committed
• inherent evil in ignoring your sins and pretending you’re better
• goody proctor portrayed as always good, undermines idea of evil being the default
• her contempt for abigail can be perceived as evil
• her evil grounded in religion
• good not a biblical term, evil clearly defined in bible
• no one is free from evil, everyone susceptible, everyone capable

ygb:

• a construct is just a name
• starts to see good & evil as only a construct
• “evil is the nature of mankind”
• good = construct, used to hide one’s evil
• evil = nature, always there, covered up by good,
• good people exposed
• whether real or not, realizes the capability of everyone he knows to be evil
• things are evil because it’s harmful to the tranquility and happiness of society

definition of evil changes over time, definition of good has stayed the same

Jane

• The crucible
• Constructs, not fully narrated in the crucible
• The society was justifying the actions, hangings, hearings, etc
• Misinformed
• Societal construction
• Brought in history, an era of uncertainty
• The ideas of good and evil were clung to as safety
• Grab on to the good of the church
• Help people deal with their insecurities
• Feel better about themselves by aligning themselves w good and the opposite of them is evil

• Society has a role in whether you are good or evil

• Satanism, converting w the devil
• Started w the lower classes
• Tituba
• Goody osborne, goody goode

• Higher classes abuse their power
• Made daughter accurse mr jacobs of witchery
• Used to acquire higher position for themselves
• Use good of the church for their own wants
• Abigail abuses her power of a child “can't tell a lie”
• Wants john proctor
• Wants elizabeth dead
• Dances in the woods
• Drinks the blood
• Repeated that good is a construct and good is not actually what that is
• In the crucible there is no good just the construct of good that is why evil things happen

Young goodman brown

• Similar to the crucible mostly evil
• Everyone is evil, the woods at night
• Exposed to the dark and the sins
• Shows the higher officials associating w the lower class
• Symbol for everyone is a sinner
• Facade of good
• A lot less grey area between good and evil in this
• Not used to manipulate
• God is seen as good, not a construct, just the ultimate good
• Satan, witchcraft is evil
• Internal struggle between the two
• Binaries, knowing the truth and oblivion, switched around
• Lying in the crucible is good because the girls accomplish their goals
• People telling truth at the end
• “the lord's prayer” right before they died
• punished for telling the truth
• Sinners can't pray showing they were innocent
• Perceptions of good and evil in the crucible and the effects on society, implications
• Young goodman brown set up simpler
• Black and white
• No construing
• Black and white area might be flopped no grey
• Realizing what is going on in society ygb
• Crucible is the application of the binary

Second Half

• Society has an impact on what good and evil are
• Focus on the societies in the texts
• After YGB thinks that faith has turned
• “my faith is gone”
• Both texts support that good and evil are constructs used to justify actions
• “Evil is the nature of mankind”
• Good is the construct
• Evil is the set nature
• Tried to hide it, what good is
• Tying in the crucible
• The social hierarchy etc. hides the evil
• Basically the richer you are the more “good” are
• Same with religiousness (can't touch ministers)
• When abigail accuses the minister hale's wife that's shut down
• Revenge and fear---> evil
• Evil is treated as a scientific fact EVIL IS A FACT
• Books on witchcraft brought by Rev Hale
• Facts, procedural and scientific ways to establish if evil is present
• Books on good = the bible
• However this is open to interpretation
• The judges used a phrase to justify that children cannot lie
• Which is not the case
• Therefore cannot define good
• Evil is conspiring with satan, not believing in christian ways
• Good is being faithful
• Everything is associated with religion, therefore definition has to have a religious context

John Proctor??? Is the good?? Is the evil???

• Tried to argue he was a good man
• The committed a sin→ adultery
• Eventually hung for witchcraft
• However he was hung w honor
• Society he is given a good connotation bc he is landowning and a christian
• Until his evil is exposed in court, his “illusion of goodness” is brought to light
• GOod would be recognizing your evils/bad qualities and then making the attempt to move away from them
• John about to sign confession
• Elizabeth shows forgiveness, which shows his overall goodness bc the recognized his wrongdoings
• John and Elizabeth had good intentions, wanted nothing bad to happen
• Even though she lied in court
• Inherent evil is the default nature of humans and very prevalent
• Admitting to evil would make someone good
• Elizabeth had malicious anger toward abigail which is justified
• Not the definition of good, she's not perfect bc she does not follow the bible exactly (forgiving people, bc she did not forgive abigail)
• Her evil is grounded in religion
• Good is not a biblical term however evil is
• Nobody is free from evil
• Ministers and children were thought to be free of it
• Minister was selfish and only looked out for himself
• The children lied
• Good with the recognition of evil
• Evil is seen as witchcraft, harmful to the goal of society → a happy religious life
• Susceptible to societies views
• Ex: from our time slavery is seen as evil
• Evil changes over time
• Good stays the same