Seminar notes, block 1

Big Board - What are good and evil?

The Crucible and Young Goodman Brown

1. Medha: [James] What is good and evil? ***Good is those who strive to better society and improve the world

    Evil: don’t react, they don’t do anything, ignore injustice and stand by and let evil occur

2. Arelson: [Dan] Good is a positive construct, Evil is negative - Godliness and holiness is the standard of good because it is what the bible says and they followed the bible both in religion and in law (Puritan Times)
3. Marty: [Hannah] ***Agrees, no one born evil, its temptation. Societal norms are usually good. Evil people are tempted by outside forces. Especially in puritan society
4. Jimmy: [Danielle] Uses religion as way to keep people good, helped to keep structure in society. Notice in Crucible that chaos was bad, and when everyone believed witchcraft was bad, everyone rioted against their religion and lost social structure.
5. Medha: [Nicole] Some that were perceived as good in Crucible, having land, having power and being rich are considered evil in YGB.  Reverend Parris didn’t care about evil(lying), and would rather take care of himself and his reputation. He protected Abigail even when she was lying just to selfishly protect his reputation. This goes against the binary that lying is bad. People with power can be corrupted and are more easily corrupted.
6. Arelson: [James] ***The church is not necessarily good;  church power has been abused greatly - it is not good/holy; can be seen in Salem; Putnam uses the situation for his own benefit - to gain land from the excommunicated and/or executed
7. Marty: [Nicole] Continuing the ideas: In YGB, GB thought himself extremely holy, and revered the pastors but in the end the men he respected so much ended up being w devil. Hawthorne's point is pointing out the Hypocrisy of church values and people thinking they are more holy than others.
8. Jimmy: [Dan] Agrees with argument that upper class is evil, cannot overlook lower class who were blamed in the Crucible, crowd was seen as somber. In other words, wants to consider both classes as good/evil in the crucible.
9. Medha: [Ifrah] Being born evil: One can grown up to have good Christian values, but if you go against them you can be evil. Proctor was grown up with good Christian values but when having an affair with Abigail, he began to lie and when against his good values and became “evil”.
10. Arelson: [Nicole] Even though they all seem inherently evil, the characters still try to be good. Proctor regrets his adultery; Young Goodman Brown did not fully “fall for the devil”
11. Marty: [Hannah] ***People are born good and then are turned evil, they turn evil after seeing someone they love or respect become corrupt because that shows them it's ok. EX: Girls following Abigail in the Crucible, and YGB being worried about his mentors consorting w devil
12. Jimmy: [Danielle ] No proof anywhere that Abigail was bad in her past. Can argue that loss of parents can make her more evil. Also because she was not married at such an older age, could be a jealousy issue.
13. Medha:[Nicole] ***What made Abigail evil was when she was given power to say that others were evil and was called a holy child that could save the town. She NEEDED the power and evil. Power has consistently been on the good binary when we coded the other stories. But power in both YGB and the crucible was misused and used for evil rather for good. Power should be more associated with bad.
14. Arelson: [James] Power can lead to its misuse; Abigail is evil; she consciously lied and did not care about the lives of the people who were hanged
15. Marty: [Nicole] Abigail is truly evil, from church's standpoint, but also modern viewpoint- falsely accusing people to protect herself. Only cares about herself
16. Jimmy: [Hannah ] Abigail is also selfish. Purposely blamed Elizabeth Proctor just to have John Proctor to herself. Selfishness can also be seen as being evil.
17. Medha: [James] Abigail and her selfishness: Example of how it was written in the Mccarthy era, people could be blacklisted if you talk about communism. While John Proctor tried to stop the unfairness occurring in the town, calling devil when there was none. (not a finished thought)

HALF TIME

18. Arelson: [James]***Abigail is jealous; Example: They were terrified about the soviet threat; Tries to use a metaphor about Hollywood: Abigail coming from Europe trying to get a job in Hollywood but her reputation prevents her from getting a job. She felt as if she had no power and wanted to get her power back by “breaking the blacklist”; This example may show that she wanted to take power because she had little power. She made false claims as everyone believed her. Soviet union/refugee/indian raids/gibberish/blacklist
19. Marty: [Danielle] The girls in crucible had the power because they were trustworthy, but in YGB it was usually the older people. Is power itself evil? Or is having power what causes these usually Good people to become evil?
20. Jimmy: [James] Nurses were seen as good people. Older=more good. Abigail=young/evil. Power changes how someone acts.
21. Medha:[Dan] General Picture, evil is something that is unnatural and differs from normal society, ex. Witchcraft. YGB said that his father never went to the woods, showing that they never deviated from society proving that they’re a good family. Staying with society is a good thing while being different is “evil”.
22. Arelson: [Nicole] ***It's more the human ability and desire to corrupt power; these ideas present that evil is in our human nature
23. Marty: [Hannah] Agrees, Human Nature is to abuse power, especially in people who aren't used to having it. EX Abigail was never powerful until the townspeople started putting trust in her that she began abusing the power
24. Jimmy: [Ifrah] Agrees that the power made the characters good/evil. Hawthorne’s message believed that people should question society and the notion of good/evil.
25. Medha:[Nicole] Does good or evil seem to win? Evil wins in both stories. In the beginning of YGB, Brown lives a good happy Christian life. He uses his faith to resist the devil and actively tries to resist evil But at the end he gives up his faith to the devil, he no longer loves his wife the same way or see the world the same way. In the Crucible 26 people died showing that evil took over the town. The evil won over in both stories.
26. Arelson: [Dan] ***Agrees that the amount of evil in people can be based on how much it can overpower them, but evil affects everyone
27. Marty: [Hannah] YGB-Lets the evil win, the evil takes control over him as the story goes on, his curiosity and temptation get the better of him, and then lets other outside forces determine and influence negatively his faith.
28. Jimmy: [James] Believes Evil wins in the Crucible. Due to the fact that they are resisting new ideas. It is apparent that Proctor attempted to win the fight. Joseph Hale attempted to get Judge Hawthorn to understand new ideas. If it was a different judge (as in not religious bias), maybe outcome of The Crucible could have been different.
29. Medha:[Nicole] The acceptance of the idea that everyone in the church is corrupt and that’s what led to Brown’s downfall that he became evil. Being confronted with new ideas will not change the people, but the acceptance of these new things.
30. Arelson: [Ifrah] Agrees with Nicole and Dan
31. Marty: [Nicole] agrees, ignorance in crucible- keep villagers in dark, act like nothing's wrong- cover their own mistakes. When on trial, the Judges were too close minded in their beliefs and their ignorance led to downfall of their village.
32. Jimmy: [Danielle] Changes topic. Notices social hierarchy in the crucible. Rich people believed that they were protected. However, part of hierarchy was taken away (like Nurse), which led to the lower class gaining more power.
33. Medha:[Dan] Abigail said that “Satan may reach anyone”, showing that evil could be taken by anyone. Thinks social hierarchy did not matter on who will be taken by evil.
34. Arelson: [James]***a change in society and new ideas can lead to instability
35. Marty: [Danielle] Rich people seen as good- had lots of power, when they died leads to power vacuum,and a struggle for who would have the power next
36. Jimmy: [Nicole] ***Hierarchy influenced masses, as well as individuals. Church seen at the top. When YGB saw upper leaders worshipping with devil, he starts to relate with the devil. Relates back to how individuals can be affected and not just the masses are affected by the social hierarchy.
37. Medha: [Nicole] Does the societies in the story better without the construct of good and evil? Does not think not having the construct of good and evil is good or bad; some things that are considered good in the society were actually bad, vice versa. People with lower status can be good people, an example of how “evil” can be good. And children can lie, an example of how “good” can be evil.
38. Arelson: [Dan] Good and evil is in every literary work that you read